Original Title: "Dialogue with Pi Horse: From MEME coin to Launch Platform, the Behavioral Economics Feast and Investment Logic Behind the All in Culture"

Original compilation: Deep Tide TechFlow

Original source: Web3 101

Release date: May 24, 2025

Anchor:

· Liu Feng, Partner at BODL Ventures, former Editor-in-Chief of ChainNews

· Xiong Haojun Jack, Deputy Editor, Host of "Web3 Nameless Talk"

Guest:

· Pi Ma, Co-founder of Continue Capital

Cosmos Meme Reflection: The Siphon Effect of Liquidity and the Matthew Effect

Liu Feng: As an OG, you once had remarkable achievements in the public chain and DeFi fields, but in today's world of Crypto investment, the term OG feels like an insult. The story of how P Xiaojiang has transformed into P Marshal is currently the most impressive. What are your thoughts on this trend?

On the one hand, I have worked a lot on Solana in this cycle, and I have participated in all Memecoins in Solana, including the earliest BONK, WIF, BOME, POP CAT, and later GOAT, as well as a large number of projects that have been the survival of the fittest. At that time, we took it for granted that Solana Meme would recover, and other public chains would definitely recover to a certain extent, so after Solana laid out BONK, it seemed to me that it was a relatively tight logic to go to Cosmos and Avalanche and other ecosystems to find similar Memecoin layouts.

But I ignore the siphon effect and the Matthew effect of liquidity, after the first wave you participated, it was actually over, you think it has a second wave, a third wave, but in fact, it completed its historical mission in an early rebound stage, and the remaining mainstream capital attention will return to some on-chain ecosystems dominated by Solana at that time. I've shared before that Memecoin accounts for about 1% to 3% of the market capitalization of the public chain, and in extreme cases, it can reach 5%. At that time, I did a lot of observation and statistics and came to the conclusion that the top Memecoin accounted for 1% to 5% of the market value of the public chain at that time for a certain period of time, and there were a few outliers in this range, such as DOGE and SHIB, but I eliminated them.

As the cryptocurrency market developed, you would find that Solana is completely incompatible with this system. There are a large number of Memecoins emerging one after another, presenting an atmosphere that is completely different from other ecosystems. This is entirely determined by the retail investors of Solana; Solana is a market centered around retail investors, which contributes to the birth of many tracks and fields within the Solana ecosystem that easily bring emotional, volatile, and highly market-oriented experiences to retail investors. On one hand, I am observing the entire Solana ecosystem, and on the other hand, I am also willing to actively participate in Memecoins, which have liquidity, participation, a broad user base, and are relatively less mainstream.

How can one make money in the Memecoin behavioral finance feast?

Feng Liu: If you want to invest in Memecoin, how can you make money? This is a particularly crude question.

Pima: I basically have 90% of my Memecoin on Solana, and even more, I won’t pay attention to other coins on any other chain. This market has already evolved an optimal solution for you, and you are just looking for a second alternative on this optimal solution.

The core reason for finding a second alternative is that you don't get a result on the optimal solution, or you don't get involved, you just look for that kind of catch, and it's very easy to fall into the investment trap. You will find that once you get in, it will either not rise, or it will torture you between ups and downs. Another core is that it is difficult to get in the pocket, and you will find that when the Solana head meme draws down by 30%, your 200% profit is gone, and the drawdown is very fast. That's why I'm basically not going to pursue the ultimate in any investment system. Personally, I think it's very difficult for you to try to avoid the first cut of the whole market from bull to bear. Crypto is 7 x 24 hours, and you can't keep an eye on all market fluctuations in real time, which is destined to mean that floating profits are easy to fall into pockets. The function of the faucet is that it allows you to have a second chance to touch the high point, to give you a profit attempt, so basically just focus on the faucet.

The second is that I think when people invest in Memecoin, they often pay attention to a kind of short flat fast, in fact, from my personal experience to get big results, short flat fast may not be suitable for medium-sized investors or more, unless you are very small. Short-lived participants are often only attracted by short-term attention and don't consider Memecoin's core operating logic. Split the Memecoin into horizontal and vertical axes, with the x-axis being the time. The y-axis is the market capitalization, you will find that the market value of the vast majority of Memecoin is directly proportional to time, time is a very important concept, except for BOME, TRUMP and other rare cases, all the current Memecoin of more than $1 billion is basically running for more than half a year, without the factor of time, many assumptions are not valid.

I feel like Memecoin is a feast of behavioral finance a lot of the time. One of the founders of behavioral finance was named Richard Brown. Thaler, who is also a Nobel laureate, divided the original investment system into two types, one is a savings account and the other is an entertainment account. Daniel · Kahneman has also written a very famous thinking before, he basically divides people into two systems: the first system needs to think, pay attention to logic, rationality, and require a lot of energy; System 2 is simple, straightforward, and fast, and doesn't require much effort. Reflected in the Crypto field, Memecoin is perfectly compatible with System 2, which is fast and effective, with high volatility, and satisfies the emotional and capitalized operation of some of our FOMOs.

In the first two weeks, I swiped a paper that said that a person's investment decision-making process may not take more than 6 minutes, and now in Memecoin it is even 6 seconds, which is very similar to many of our investment decisions, I actually have a lot of investment decisions that are very impulsive, of course, I am impulsive because I have thought about the basic beta or savings account has been clearly arranged, and I have a lot of time and energy to look for more possibilities in the alpha market. A very important challenge of behavioral finance to traditional finance is that everyone is irrational, what you think is rational is just living in your own information cocoon, people live in loud noise, and most people do not have the ability to distinguish noise.

Overall, I believe that Memecoin represents a significant advancement in behavioral finance. If we later develop a theoretical framework related to behavioral finance, we can actually use some data from Memecoin as research samples.

The Three Soul Questions: Are you brave enough to buy? If you buy, are you bold enough to go all in? Can you hold on during a downturn?

Liu Feng: In the past few cycles, we have learned the meticulous investment logic you wrote about. Today, we may only be looking at volatility and whether the social consensus of MEME can quickly attract liquidity. Do you think this situation can continue?

Pima: In fact, many investments are difficult because times are changing, the structure of investors, the age range of investments, and the income levels of investors are all changing.

Let me start by saying that Memecoin will continue to grow, and this is not just in Crypto. In my system, the crypto space is not a separate market, it is fully correlated and synchronized with the development of the world. People who have not caught up with the dividends of the times, a large number of unemployed, people who have been eliminated by globalization, and people who have been solidified by the class and have no direction and investment opportunities, they use a rebellious psychology to refuse to vote for those elites, whether it is the tariffs of the United States, the rise of new nationalism in Europe, including the rise of conservatism on the right side of Australia, a new wave of nationalism is going on in the world. The mapping of this trend in real life is condensed into slogans such as "All in" and "One Shuttle", and such a trend is not only in the crypto field, but globally.

I think the rise of nationalism has injected a lot of power into the Memecoin market and other niche and speculative markets, and this part of the force will have a great impact on the traditional financial market with the development of AI and peer-to-peer Internet information technology. You follow Junior P because he brings in a lot of chips and results, which is the most impactful, communicative and eye-catching, and I will avoid sharing the actual diagram myself, but a large number of other Twitter users will instead use it to gain huge exposure. On the other hand, we are now focusing on information equality. People's attention is very limited, when you pay a lot of attention to P Juniors, you will definitely not do in-depth research on the theoretical system, and the core will return to the old three: Do you dare to buy? Do you dare to take a heavy position after buying? Can you hold it when the heavy position is falling?

Many times, you only get the results but not the decision-making process behind those results. Therefore, even if you know the outcome, you still won't buy, won't dare to buy, won't heavily invest, and won't hold onto it for long.

With the advent of the lonely society, it is more attractive for niche tracks to sell demand than to sell products. What is Demand in the Crypto Sector? That is, psychological identity, users who hold Memecoin form a small group and community, which brings a strong psychological identity, and this extremely identified community will only self-reinforce. Unfortunately, Pump has launched more than 1 million Memecoins, but only a handful have survived. This state of over-involvement and over-inability to get results will form a very rebellious situation: seeing others get good results will cause great stimulation to themselves, so that they will be more diligent, further wrong in the wrong choice, and then affect the mentality more, unable to focus on analysis and summary, and even worse to give the results, a very vicious circle.

Memecoin is a very interesting social phenomenon, but fewer and fewer people are observing it.

Focus more on MEME infrastructure: Which LaunchPads are worth researching?

Jack: Many MEME projects, even if they increase 100 times, may not bring particularly significant results. So what is your purpose in frequently participating in small to medium-sized MEME projects?

Matcha: This is a measure of market participation, and I need to engage in the most liquid markets with the highest number of retail investors. When I discuss Memecoin, it's not about what results Memecoin can bring me; for our investments, I might be more concerned about the infrastructure of Memecoin, such as DEX, LaunchPad, etc. These are two completely different systems; you can think of it as left hand Beta, right hand Alpha. For me, after establishing a solid foundation in my Beta work, I allocate some time and energy to invest in the Memecoin market to sense market trends.

One of the best things about the crypto space is that you can feel the flow of the global capital markets with very small observations. All Memecoins are zeroed out and nothing too significant for us. However, Memecoin is mapped and correlated with other investment markets every time, but most people don't feel much about it. We have to consider the allocation of global capital, and these targets are only the choice of beta that serves my core, so the participation in Memecoin is just to confirm some logic, so that we can make a more reasonable evaluation of some of the core targets of beta.

**Liu Feng: I actually understand your logic, why do you only want to get real returns on large-capitalization memes in the meme investment logic you shared before? It's all about your size, and it's completely different from what many people call the logic of changing your life by investing in memes. Maybe retail investors only want to talk about alpha, but beta is more important to you. This era is actually the era of Memecoin, and Meme is already the voice of the times, and we should not deny it, but accept it. So in this case, we can look at the beta, look at the meme launch platforms that have gone through several generations of evolution, can you introduce which are the operational launch platforms that you can look at and that you think are worth studying? **

Pima: The most eye-catching is Pump.fun (hereinafter referred to as Pump), in fact, they don't have much innovation, but the core business model of Crypto is transaction fees, how much market share you can occupy from this business model, how much cash flow you have, I can give you a valuation. Pump meets the needs of asset issuance, and in the huge demand for Memecoin, the two sides will hit it off, there is an infinite amount of supply, and there is an infinite amount of invisible pursuit of ultra-high multiples of retail investors, so you will see asset issuance platforms springing up.

Retail consumers in the Crypto field are a highly financialized group with a strong risk awareness. They have a high impulse for gambling, and you need to design products targeting this impulse. Where do retail investors spend money? Only on transaction fees. They would rather pay you higher fees in hopes of hitting a Memecoin. They're not fools; why would they pay such high MEV priority fees? Because they believe the returns can cover the costs.

Our positioning of Crypto retail investors is a group of extremely financialized people, and we launch all our products around their needs, which is one of the important factors in the success of Pump.fun, including Virtuals, which later did AI, and is also a LaunchPad. Both of them are also to meet the strong demand for asset issuance, so we observe that this kind of launch platform is a very good investment target. Memecoin can die a thousand, 10,000, and there will be a succession of Memecoin rising, but a good launch platform can allow your funds to solidify, you can make a profit, you can really lie down to win, and do the greatest value capture in capturing the entire Memecoin running trend or trend.

Launch Platform and Public Chain: Attracting Developers is Key

Jack: For example, if Virtuals has now come to Solana, do you think it's too late? Is the opportunity only once?

Pima: All launch platforms, you have to understand its supply and demand. Who will be the supplier of the launch platform? This is an important factor. The supply side of Pump is a lot anonymous, and Virtuals has a certain choice, but of course it is also anonymous, so if you look at the quality of any launch platform, you should pay close attention to the revenue. For the launch platform, my evaluation system is exactly the same as that of the DEX, in fact, to another extent, the launch platform is also a little similar to the public chain, but everyone has not raised the two to the same level.

As a launch platform, the core competence lies in how to attract developers, which is exactly the same as the logic of the public chain, why should developers go to A and not to B? This is something worth thinking about in depth, and it is the most important issue that determines the future launch platform and the direction of the public chain. Because the experience side of the service is occupied by a large number of retail investors, we usually think that the launch platform, including the public chain, is a to C market, but in fact, in my opinion, they are a to B market.

The most important thing for the public chain and the launch platform is the future cash flow income, which depends on the continuous trading volume, and the trading volume depends on the continuous enrichment of varieties, so how to attract excellent developers to your launch platform is the core. It's actually very easy to conquer retail investors, as long as there are good assets, retail investors will come when they smell it. Of course, whether it is a public chain or a launch platform, it often tests some means and methods of marketing, but without the injection of high-quality assets, it is difficult for the launch platform or public chain to be durable.

The Unique Market Positioning of Believe

Pima: I think Believe's market entry strategy is correct. APP developers have a huge demand for financing, but they can hardly obtain any. Believe's supply side consists of independent developers who develop a large number of APPs each year, hoping to achieve positive cash flow from their APPs, but they lack suitable channels to monetize and finance their APPs. If the market is niche, it won't be possible to achieve a valuation of billions or tens of billions.

Believe focuses on this group of indie developers, or want to try something new and directional. The risk awareness and tolerance of Crypto retail investors are very high, and the core is that its market capitalization is very low, which has long realized the possibility of 100 times or 1,000 times. Believe has directly borrowed some of the experience of other launch platforms by sharing fees with these developers, which is very good and has achieved positive cash flow for indie developers during the cold start. In the traditional field, it takes a lot of people to do a lot of work, including development and marketing, but in Crypto, it is only a product, and it doesn't matter whether the product can be successful, but once the launch is successful, it will be able to share hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash flow in just one week, which is a very considerable income for independent developers, once they have this positive cash flow, they can continue to polish the product, expand the market and serve users.

This actually explains why this model is called the Internet capital market, which meets the strong demand of a large number of small developers and small and micro enterprises for financing difficulties, releases the supply side, and is very in line with the trend is that with the advent of AI, independent developers can do a very good annualized revenue single-handedly, and your promotion and operation can be completely carried out with the help of TikTok and Twitter. But do you think it's possible for a very big, very good company to emerge on the Believe platform? I'm not confident, I'm observant, but what I'm very convinced of is that Believe has done a great job of addressing a niche that serves a small area, serves a specific group of people, and serves a very targeted clientele. They're making that part of the money, which means they don't need to be big, but they have their market.

Moreover, what impressed me about Believe is their meticulous planning and packaging. Their page design is quite careful, and they also focus on launching certain projects and activities. They attempt to tell a story, and besides the Crypto field, they can also connect with other market niches. These traditional internet developers are not familiar with crypto, and this process will definitely be similar to the first wave of the AI market. Personally, I think thousands of such projects will die off; this is a process of familiarity and adaptation, and we will observe it slowly.

Liu Feng: You highly recognize the logic of Believe and its own positioning; it is more like a practical application launch platform. Now all the launched assets are MEME-ified, and Believe has the potential to produce a batch of usable applications.

Match Horse: Hope so, haha.

Update: Before the release of this episode, the Believe team announced that the automatic issuance feature of Launchcoin would be suspended, and it would be manually reviewed and tagged as verified. We again asked Pi Ma to comment on this change. Pi Ma's view is: "Review systems are generally quite foolish; permissionless is the way to go." Clearly, he does not like this change.

**Liu Feng: Recently, we have also pulled out some of the emerging applications on Believe, or some assets that are being launched, and I should have a table in my hand, which should be about fifty or sixty. I'm also thinking, if it's just a meme-like thing, it's actually too abstract for this event, but if there is really an application, maybe it's a different thing, including a launch platform like Dingaling's push, its advantage is that the token design is relatively unique, but only the token design, I think it's difficult to occupy its own position in the market, because the token design of Virtuals is quite extreme. **

**Key Point: ** The focus here is on having people, how to entice developers to your launch platform is a very critical issue.

Trading Volume: The Only Evaluation Standard of the Launch Platform

Pima: The only criterion for evaluating LaunchPad is the trading volume, which represents the core earnings. If you can't figure out the underlying logic, you won't invest in Pump when it comes out. Now that you've seen the results, Pump has made $700 million, so how reasonable is Pump's valuation? Under normal logic, the valuation of $14 billion under 20x PE is also reasonable, and if you take into account that the volatility is too high and Memecoin is not durable, the valuation of $7 billion under 10x PE is fine, or even the valuation of $3.5 billion under 5x PE, the core of the problem is:

What exactly is investment? It is the discounting of a kind of future cash flow. So when you consider LaunchPad, it is not about whether this platform is currently worth 100 million, 200 million, or 1 billion, but whether the revenue of this platform can continue to expand in the future. This actually completely applies to the logic of stock market investment.

Crypto AI: Results-Oriented Investment Returns

Liu Feng: Here you must make a disclosure, Believe you invested, right?

Match Horse: Yes.

Liu Feng: This information disclosure is quite important. The audience may feel that Pi Ma has invested in this project, which is why he views it very highly. Therefore, from an investment perspective, I think everyone still needs to do their own research and be responsible for themselves. Besides MEME, are you looking at AI Agent as well?

Pima: Now the entire AI track is basically result-oriented, that is, investment-oriented. In the field of Crypto AI, we feel that all these investments in the infrastructure field seem to be repeatedly borrowing some AI technologies from the Internet field, so we feel that it does not have a deep moat and does not have its own unique characteristics, so basically we will be result-oriented, that is, you can help me make transactions or increase my revenue. The combination of AI and social media may be more profitable.

Liu Feng: It sounds like you are not very confident about Crypto AI or the AI agent of Crypto?

Pima: On the one hand, I think that many of their core technologies basically come from the field of the traditional Internet, on the other hand, to find their own business model, Pump as a representative of the rise of the application side is a very important one, we will tend to look at more application side of some ecology. In the app-side ecosystem, I first need to know where the paying user base is? In addition to asset issuance and trading, many application-side projects did not run out in the end, because they could not achieve positive cash flow, such as games, can you tell me that a game side has achieved a stable annual income of 300 million or 500 million US dollars? No.

Liu Feng: In real-world games, this is definitely possible, but in Crypto, such profits can obviously only be obtained by selling coins.

Pima: Yes, because of the uniqueness of Crypto users, for Crypto games, players will think that you let me pay, and I heard you right, right? There is no kryptonite, but the main business logic of the game is kryptonite. Therefore, in the application field, it is still mainly based on revenue. Where is the revenue generated? What is the quality of revenue generation? Sustainability of revenue generation? These are all points that we are very focused on and are result-oriented.

Liu Feng: So it can be said that your current investment logic is very clear, which is not to talk to me about trends and grand visions; what I want is for you to truly deliver results, to be able to self-generate revenue, and to have real users.

Pima: Right, because the times are developing, innovation is also evolving, the macro interest rate environment is changing, and the logic of globalization is also changing. I think many things cannot remain unchanged.

Looking forward to the development of Crypto ahead

Liu Feng: The coin circle you are talking about doesn't seem to be the coin circle we are familiar with.

Pima: Actually, I think I'm very optimistic about the development of the currency circle in the future. A lot of logic revolves around trading, if it can better meet the trading experience of global users, whether it is a launch platform or a DEX, or a traditional trading platform, as well as a dog software, these products have both marketization, demand, and users, and customers are willing to pay for your product. U.S. legislation is slowly becoming legal and compliant, and there will be a lot of money coming to the chain. Stablecoins are only $200 billion now, and in the next two, three, or five years, stablecoins may continue to dry to $1 trillion, and at this size, it will show a kind of 24-hour transaction and operation. The trading track can extend a lot and huge market space, so I am very much looking forward to products in the form of on-chain DeFi or on-chain Internet finance.

In addition, the core business model of the entire Crypto field is transaction fees. After realizing the replenishment of transaction fees, the enterprise side replenishes the company side. Once the company receives the funds, it continues to positively expand its user base. Combining the religious nature of the Crypto community, it is very likely to achieve certain market growth and space in some segmented areas that we cannot access. This is actually a very good and effective operational logic I have observed: you do not need to maintain cash flow by selling tokens; you just need to encourage more trading. If you can achieve an average daily trading volume of 100 million dollars, you might earn about 1 million dollars, and you can completely expand your coverage to achieve higher returns.

Of course, there are some issues, such as once it comes to arbitrage, or when the product has not gained positive information flow beyond trading, it may lead to collapse. However, this is not important; what matters is that we have seen a very good way to launch, which is to use trading fees to support the growth of the enterprise in its early stages. This also aligns very well with the characteristics of Crypto investment.

Liu Feng: You are still so spirited, thank you for your faith in recharging during this period.

Pi Ma: I just see a possibility.

The core of public chains lies in Gas fees and MEV fees

Jack: Actually, I still have a puzzle, I just mentioned that with the development of stablecoins in the future, more funds will flow to the chain, but is it possible that all the funds flowing to the chain are in the state of stablecoins, and transactions are also priced and anchored through stablecoins, and it will no longer use this layer of the chain's native assets, such as ETH or Solana, and the platform for obtaining profits is to stay at the application layer of Pump. The underlying chain seems to be still stuck in a mode of selling coins, it sells coins to or sends them to nodes, and then nodes sell them to the market, and then the underlying coin seems to have no self-hematopoietic ability of fees. In this way, although there may be a lot of money in this industry, it doesn't seem to be of much help to the underlying token.

Mimic: The core of public chains lies in Gas fees and the slowly developing MEV. Gas fees are the costs you incur for every action you take; you can understand it as an expenditure on bandwidth, storage, or computing resources for a public chain over a period of time. This is a place where you have to pay, and the necessity to pay means that this is a very good business model and investment system logic.

A large number of stablecoins come to the chain, and no matter which chain it accesses, it will definitely have a demand for liquidity and a demand for transactions. Asset on-chain is the asset on-chain of everything, and tokenization is a very big trend. Because it is very transparent and flexible, it is also available 24 hours a day. Do you need to understand more deeply what exactly is the on-chain NASDAQ? It is the issuance of assets and the trading of assets, this is your source. When you come in so much money, you can take a look at the revenue of TRON, their revenue is very stable, and TRON maintains its revenue at 10 billion because it has the demand for gas fees of stablecoins.

Jack: I understand this point, but the current visible trend, for example from Ethereum, is that in its last cycle, due to Gas fees and various on-chain innovations, whether it's NFT or DeFi, it indeed greatly boosted its value capture. However, during the process of a large number of applications going on-chain, its Gas fees became an obstacle to its own expansion. Then it began a process of reducing Gas fees. As Gas fees continuously decreased, it was found that despite the increased on-chain adoption, Gas revenue was getting less and less, to the point where it could hardly maintain its own value. Such phenomena seem to be observed on Solana as well.

Pima: You are very right, all blockchain systems are a kind of software, software will continue to iterate, if you think from a long-term, ultimate perspective of the world, the marginal cost of gas fees of all public chains is zero, then what to profit? You can go to see the priority fee on Solana, Solana's basic fee is only about 1/3, and most of the others are tips and priority fees, why raise the tips and priority fees? This is actually the most core competitiveness, the future revenue of the public chain will depend on tips and MEV to decide, Solana actually makes a distinction between the ecology through this, the basic fee is just an ordinary transfer, that is, the transfer is a fee, and other transactions are another fee.

You will find that when you optimize the system around trading, you can take a lot of profit on the trading side. The profits of MEV and REV are very large, and they will definitely far exceed the gas fee in the future development process. Why do users pay for acceleration? Because of the willingness to grab this block, the trading market is first-come, first-served, which is also the reason why the Nasdaq on the chain pursues millisecond-level block production speed, and now Solana is 400 milliseconds, which is far from enough. I think maybe 20 milliseconds can compete with the traditional Internet.

In this competition process of REV or MEV, the willingness of customers to pay is the core competitiveness. Why are customers willing to pay? Because they believe it is profitable. Whoever occupies the majority of MEV and makes customers more willing to pay determines a way to discount the core cash flow of the enterprise in the future. Currently, 80% of Solana's daily revenue comes from tips, priority fees, and MEV fees, which is very telling. We need to seek more sustainable, efficient, and higher-quality revenue.

The moat for the development of a chain is the developer. The public chain is a B-side market, and the C-end does not determine its success or failure. The important thing for me is the transaction volume, REV and developers of this chain, which is an important indicator for me to look at the growth and future plasticity of the public chain. We will try not to invest in any public chain projects now, the overall situation has been decided, and what is not decided is your position. There is also the network effect, just like why not challenge CATL in the field of new energy, because it is very difficult to build an ecosystem.

Liu Feng: Can we assume that, in your opinion, the landscape of the public chain world is already fixed, and we shouldn't expect any new public chains to make a successful comeback?

Horses: China's Internet has given birth to ByteDance, a 100-billion-dollar company, in the past ten years, and if venture capital or secondary capital has not been invested in ByteDance in the past ten years, there is basically no need to do it, because 55% of the profits are taken away by Bytes. The law of twenty-eight exists in every field, and the reason why we have expectations for many things is because we are faithful to some logic of the past. Crypto is still promising, just like Hyperliquid is on the rise, and I think Hyperliquid, like Solana, aims to become a decentralized NASDAQ, and Monad seems to be the same.

The core is that we have learned to settle accounts, we have a large number of ETFs coming, we are facing more mature investors, in the future in a unified account, the friction of trading is getting smaller and smaller, buy Nvidia, Alibaba, Tencent, tomorrow you can buy bitcoin ETF in the same account, etc., who you buy determines who is expensive and who is cheap. The core question is, why give Solana, Ethereum 100, 200 times PE? If your revenue performance is not as good as expected after multiple cycles, then PE will fall. The investment system is becoming more and more mature, but many people do not think about this problem, focusing on the core revenue and the core fundamentals.

There are many people in this world who are willing to think, but now everyone's attention is extremely distracted and one-sided, so they express emotions using some concise and abstract language, such as going All in, etc. This is also a microcosm of social evolution. What is scarce in this world is the ability to think independently and discern noise.

Layer 2 has greatly diminished the economic value of Ethereum

Liu Feng: My last question was originally going to be, if you had to choose between Ethereum and Solana, which one would you choose? But obviously, that question no longer needs to be asked. So, could you explain how Ethereum made you abandon it? Why? Are the developers of Ethereum not good enough?

Pima: I think the shift in Ethereum's core was in 2018 and 2019, when you asked me about an area that I was bearish on, and I said Layer 2, Layer 2 would greatly reduce the economic value of Ethereum. I've actually studied the so-called technical terms such as the currency settlement layer and the execution layer, but I'm not interested in them, because these things are better quantified, and how much money does the settlement layer settle? How much does Layer 1 make in a day? As soon as Layer 2 is split, OK, after all the money is made by Base and Arbitrum, how much money will be handed over to the central government Ethereum? Is this way of sharing reasonable? After the Layer 2 local princes have acquired a large amount of economic ownership, will there be other ideas for armed independence? Will it seek a more profitable market-oriented operation? I think these are all questions that Ethereum hasn't thought through in the past.

I believe that everything can be quantified and explained with certain financial indicators. The gross profit margin of public chains is actually very high. It is essential to clarify who is making money from this; if that is unclear, we won't know who will bear the cost. This is a very important issue. Therefore, I personally think that Ethereum's move to Layer 2 is a relatively wrong approach, as it does not provide good returns to Ethereum; all the money is being taken by the local lords of Layer 2.

Conclusion

Liu Feng: Finally, I would especially like to dedicate this episode of the podcast to a very good friend who knows both me and Teacher Pi Ma. He was a little fan of Pi Ma and left us in the second half of last year, which we all regret very much. I think if he were here, he would definitely listen to this podcast very seriously, so I want to dedicate it to him and also thank Pi Ma for the sharing.

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